One of the skills you'll need for retriever hunt tests is the blind retrieve — where the dog retrieves downed game that they didn't see land. In this episode Jennifer talks me though exactly what that means and how she approaches it in training.

 Transcription

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau, and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today I have Jennifer Henion here with me to talk about teaching a blind retrieve. Hi, Jennifer. Welcome back to the podcast!

Jennifer Henion: Hey, thanks for having me.

Melissa Breau: Absolutely excited to chat about this. So to start us out, do you want to just remind listeners a little about you and your current canine crew?

Jennifer Henion: Yeah. So I teach people how to teach their dog to succeed in retriever sports. And that's like hunt tests, field trial, that sort of thing. I focus on retrievers, so that's, yeah, what I love to do. I've been doing that for about twelve years and I have an online school called Field Puppy Nation.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. So let's start with maybe the basics. We want to talk about blind retrieve. So what is a blind retrieve when we're talking about these sports? So a blind retrieve is a test situation or a hunting situation where there's a downed bird in the field, but your dog didn't see it go down. So the dog doesn't really have an idea that it's even there. Only the handler and the judges really know where it is and that it is there.

So the task for the handler in a blind retrieve is to be able to line up your dog at heel, focus them on a line where they really can't see anything except whatever's in the field. Right. There's no cue for the dog to say, oh, there's probably a bird out there. So it's really a team sport where we, as the handler, have to line up our dog, get the dog to go out on that line with faith and a prayer, and then really to trust that there's something out there.

Right. So what makes blinds challenging are the elements in the field. So the judge will, specifically set up a blind retrieved test with elements that are going to pull your dog off the route that you want the dog to take. And in those cases, what the judge wants to see is how well you're able to whistle, sit your dog if the dog goes off route, and then cast the dog with arm cues to get back online toward the destination.

So the judge doesn't mind in retriever tests, if you have to whistle, sit and cast. In fact, they'd like to see that. And what they're doing is judging how well you trained your dog to do that. So that's what a blind retrieve really is.

Melissa Breau: So you introduced two additional terms there. I just would love to stop for a second and just have you explain what they are. So the whistle, sit, and casting, can you just describe those a little more?

Jennifer Henion: Yeah. So, like I said, when there's an element that pulls the dog off line to the blind, you want to be able to stop your dog and be able to redirect. Right. So we do that with a cue, which is a whistle. So it's just one toot of a whistle. And that cue to the dog means, oh, stop, turn around, look at the handler and sit, and then wait for further direction.

And so in order to get the dog back on route, the dog will be looking at you in their sit position, and then we'll use our arm, either our left arm or right arm, to sort of point the dog in the right direction. The dog knows what each of those arm cues mean, and we'll turn and take that line from the sit. Interesting. So, kind of knowing that we need to build this fairly complex skill.

Right. I assume we need to start with a normal retrieve. Before we teach a blind retrieve, can you just talk a little bit about what that looks like for purposes of a hunt tests? So a normal. You mean like what a normal retrieve and hunt test would look like? Yes, I guess, you know, most people are thinking of, when we talk about a retrieve, they're thinking of maybe an obedience retrieve.

Right. Or they're thinking of, you know, kind of. They throw the thing out there, the dog brings it back, and it just seems like this is a little more complex than that. There's a little more involved here.

Melissa Breau: So can you just kind of talk about that a little more?

Jennifer Henion: Yeah. So to give you the picture. Picture a field, like a big field with trees or valleys in it.

And the judge will set up stations in the field where there's a person who's going to throw a bird. Okay, you're back at the start line, so to speak. And so your dog looks out into the field. The judge will signal each of the stations, and that station will throw the bird. Your dog watches that happen. So he sees the birdhouse fly and fall, and that's called a marked retrieve because the dog visually marked where it went.

Then we send the dog, they go out across the field, navigating the different distractions, picks up the bird and carries it all the way back to the handler, delivering to hand. So that's what a retrieve would look like. And so the blind just adds the complication of the dog doesn't see the bird fall. Is that exactly. Yeah. But, you know, your question said that you're assuming that they need to have that before they can train on blind retrieves.

But the truth is that you could actually start with food targets. You don't actually need a formal retrieve to be able to train for blind retrieves because it's a chain of skills, right? It's like a behavior chain. And instead of having a retrieve item, you could actually use a food target and teach all the stuff that you need for a blind retrieve with just food targets. Then later, once you get your actual fetch and hold and delivery, then you can just insert that piece right into your training.

Melissa Breau: I love that. I like that way of kind of breaking it down and thinking about those other pieces and kind of an alternative way of approaching that when you're looking at this. Right. Does knowing that eventually you need the blind retrieve change or impact how you maybe teach the initial retrieve? Does that make sense?

Jennifer Henion: Yeah, I think it makes sense, but because I guess because they are based on the same behavior chain, really, you can be teaching both of them simultaneously with the same type of training games? Yeah, I guess not really is the answer. So it doesn't impact it.

Melissa Breau: Interesting. Does it impact anything? I mean, even casual retrieve games around the house or anything? Do you do anything there that's maybe different than somebody who's not involved in retriever sports or kind of, you know, how somebody might approach it if they weren't planning on doing retriever sports? I guess I'm just trying to look at, like, how the foundations are maybe different than people might traditionally think of for a retrieve. Does that make sense?

Jennifer Henion: I suppose so. So if I'm training a blind retrieve or regular retrieve at home, knowing I'm going to play the sport, is that what you mean? So, I mean, to me, the things that seem obvious, right? So, like, we need a lot more distance maybe than we'd need for a retrieve in other sports we may be, you know, you mentioned some foundations you do for blinds that are probably pretty different than things people would think about if they weren't doing retriever specific sports.

Melissa Breau: I don't know. Are there other pieces there that maybe jump out at you as like, specific pieces you build?

Jennifer Henion: Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, because in our sport, we really need that teamwork of the dog being at heel position and looking out whether it's for a mark or for a blind. So I like to really incorporate those as soon as humanly possible. So I teach the really fun being in heel position games, focusing forward, like on a food bowl when they're pups at heel, the steadiness aspect.

So I want the dog to be able to sit at heel and only go when I give a release cue. And I often play these type of games at meal times with their food bowl, just kind of doling out small pieces of their meal so that I can practice the whole chain. And then, of course, so the dogs that heel being steady, staring at the food bowl, I say the release word, the dog goes to the food bowl, and then I want an automatic return back to be.

So, yeah, I create these chains very, very early on so that it becomes. Each part becomes rewarding, and the whole chain sort of rewards itself after a while.

Melissa Breau: So you started to talk earlier about kind of food targets and some of those pieces. Can you talk just a little bit more about, you know, when it comes to actually teaching the blind retrieve, what skills go into it and kind of where you start?

Jennifer Henion: Yeah, absolutely. Number one, the blind. The hard part about a blind retrieve is working as a team at a distance, where the dog's at a distance from you, but you still need to work as a team despite the space in between, plus the rich environment that you're performing in, which triggers all of your dog's instinctual drives. So if you think about it, you're in a field full of scent things that look attractive.

I want to go hunt over there. So you're fighting, you're not, you know, you're battling against these instinctual drives. Right. So what I like to do is make that its own skill and start in the house with a game. And it's basically to teach the dog the concept of what a blind is, which is, hey, something you really love is hidden in this room. And so you might want to show the dog what it is.

Go through the door, leave the dog on the other side of the door, go hide the thing, maybe hide it in plain sight. Come and get the dog and go, hey, you want to go find it? And maybe use the terminology that you would use in a real blind, bring him into that room and help the dog find the thing. So if you think about, that's basically what a blind is, is something's out there, and we're going to find it together.

So you can really make that fun and actually even use your whistle sits and your cast in your house. And I like to build that game up so that it's hard enough that I really have to work with the dog to line him up to where the blind is. He still, he can't see it, even though it's in the living room and then actually have to whistle, sit, and cast the dog to help him get to where it is.

When you can do that in your living room and it's a safe place, it's a contained place, you're rehearsing all the skills. Once you have that little egg, you can now take that to new environments and grow it, and then grow it through all the different levels of environment you're going to encounter. So specifically, though, Melissa, the skills that we need are, like I said before, getting in heel position, focusing out even though there's nothing specific to look at, having them focus on a line.

The next skill is go out on cue, even though you can't see anything specific that's challenging to a lot of people. The next is whistle sitting and then casting. Lastly, obstacle work. So a dog might encounter water that they. That's cheaty, in other words, that they could easily run around, but a judge wants them to take that water. Or it could be tall grass, a log, anything like that. So that's its own skill as well.

Melissa Breau: Where do you kind of see people get stuck or maybe kind of go wrong when they're working on this stuff? What are some of the sticking points?

Jennifer Henion: I think it's definitely environment. I think it all boils down to environment. It's super easy, frankly, to get a good whistle, sit in your yard, or to get all the great casts, cast responses in your yard.

But then when you try to just lift that and go to hunt test or to group training, that might all go out the window because your dog is overwhelmed. Not overwhelmed, but so highly aroused in the moment that it's very difficult for them to respond to your cues. So I think the big challenge is how do you go from environment to environment and carry those skills and practice those skills in the different environments to get that success.

Melissa Breau: So, of course, I can't let that go without asking you, okay, so how do we do that? So what kinds of proofing, what kinds of generalization are we talking about? How do we actually take that and get it, you know, trial ready? What things should people consider doing is kind of getting to that final picture.

Jennifer Henion: Yeah. Well, first of all, you don't just practice the whistle sit and the cast by itself and then go to try to do a blind and expect your dog to whistle sit and cast in a blind because the dog's looking for a bird.

So you want, like I was talking about before, it's so valuable to put it all together as a complete performance in your house or in your yard. Then when you take that simple performance to a park, you can set it up in the same way that you did at home and run it there. Then you're going to have mistakes. It's not going to go super smooth, but the key is letting your dog make mistakes and working through them and knowing what to do if something goes wrong.

Then layer up to, like, group training. But here's a big secret about going to group training, which if you're in the sport, you almost have to go to group training at least every now and then so that you get that hunt test environment. But my point is, instead of going to group training and doing the blind that they're doing in the big environment, instead go off to a different part of the field by yourself with your dog away from that action and set up your own simple blinds and get success there first.

Only when you can do that, then take it to group. There's a strategic way to layer up to the point of a hunt test, but doing that strategy is the key to success.

Melissa Breau: All right, so part of the reason we're chatting about all this is because you're doing your first class at FDSA and it's on blind retrieves. So do you want to just share a little more about the class, kind of what you're planning to cover? Who should consider signing up?

Jennifer Henion: I know we've just started like last week, so, yeah, it is super fun. Melissa. I am having a blast. The students so far, really engaging in it. So what we're teaching there is basically how to begin. I asked people to have prerequisites of already having taught your dog to be in heel position and focus out of, even if it's just in your kitchen.

Same goes for a whistle sit. Hopefully they're able to cue their dog to sit when the dog's about 10ft away and the dog will sit there instead of coming to you. But what we're doing is taking those super basic skills and also playing the blind game inside the house. So this class is going to each week practice the blind game. Whistle sits, casting and lining all in parallel from the beginning, and then each week leveling up.

As you can imagine, if you've got. If you're leveling up your whistle sit, you're leveling up your cast and your lining your game. They all are going to meld together to become a performance. So by the end of this course, my goal is that each person has the tools and the framework to actually run a real cold blind that's about 50 or 100 yards long. So that's what we're working on in this class.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. Any final thoughts or key points you maybe want to leave folks with, either about the class or about the topic in general?

Jennifer Henion: Yes. And it's one word, and that word is gamification. Okay. People think this is very tough, and it is if you don't have a good teacher who already knows what to do and. And how it works. But if. If you do have that teacher, I want you to know that all of these things can be taught with games, and it can be fun not only for you, but for the dog.

So believe, even though this is a very complicated group of skills that we're bringing together here, you can actually win with games. So that's what I want to leave people with.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. And I think that's true. You know, whatever sport we're talking about or thinking about that, that can be true. If you've got the right mentor, the right helping hand, almost anything could be turned into fun with your dog, 100%.

All right, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Jennifer.

Jennifer Henion: Yeah, thanks for having me, Melissa. I appreciate it.

Melissa Breau: Absolutely. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by Bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.

 Credits

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!