What really goes into having a focused dog? Join us for a conversation what it means to train focus — and how we can split a complex behavior down into component parts to build a strong but flexible skillset every sports dog needs.

 Transcription

Mellisa Breau: This is Melissa Breau, and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today, I have Deb Jones here with me to talk about focus and all its many iterations. Hi, Deb. Welcome back to the podcast!

Deb Jones: Hi, Melissa. Thanks for having me back. I always enjoy chatting about all things dog training related.

Melissa Breau: Me, too. To start us off, do you want to just remind listeners a little bit about you and your current canine crew? Sure, I can talk about. It's a weird time right now for my dogs because I am down to three, and I can't tell you the last time, I only had three dogs in the household, so it feels weird.

It feels like none. And they're all adults. So I have Tigger is eight and Pixel is six, and they're shelties. And then Wizard the coolie is three. So I don't have any puppies, but I also don't have any older dogs. And I've always had both ends of the scale. So I just lost Star recently, and no more border collies in the house right now. So I think that's why it feels so weird, because you don't have that big border collie energy that you would normally have.

Melissa Breau: Thinking about next dog?

Deb Jones: Kind of vaguely thinking about next dog. I'm not quite ready yet. It takes me a while. But that's us for now. So we're a small group for now.

Melissa Breau: Fair enough. All right, so we wanted to talk focus today, and I know this is a topic that you've been, for lack of a better term, focused on for a long time now. I wrote that last night, and I was like, pun intended? Pun not intended. Not really sure, but. So how are you defining focus today? And maybe how is your approach to that changed over time?

Deb Jones: Yeah, kind of an easy built in pun there. We can focus on focus and talk about it. So, yeah, I've been working on the whole concept or the idea of focus for a very long time. I'd say about 30 years now, which is about how long I've been in dog training.

So it's been a while, and it's definitely time to update or upgrade the things that my thought process, my approach to it, the actual exercises. So I've spent a lot of time, I've probably spent about the last six or eight months really rethinking what I want to do in terms of focus training, what I want to offer. Now, that's different from the way that we taught it and offered it before.

So a couple of things. First of all, focus really is an active cognitive activity. So it requires a lot of thought, attention, and concentration. And as we know, many of our dogs, that's not what they excel at. They're good at a lot of things, but being able to focus for long periods of time, that's not necessarily one of the things they're naturally good at, and we're going to help them with that.

That's the whole point of it. We don't expect them to naturally be good at it. And also, focus is hard. It's just really difficult to maintain. I always say it's a limited resource. You use it up very, very quickly. Think about ourselves. When we're really working on something that's hard for us and we're trying and we're putting in effort, we need a lot of focus breaks. You can't just keep at it for long periods of time.

So that's something I'm always trying to build in and to get people to remember as we're working on. Focus is you can't work on it for very long at one time because that breaks it. That's just the opposite of what we want to do. So we can't take that into account. The other thing about focus is that we can't multitask it. Nobody does. We're always focused. Our dogs are always focused on something.

We're always focused on something. And when we try to focus on more than one thing at a time, something's got to give, so we can have a primary focus, and that works pretty well, especially if it's something that we know well and that's easy for us. So if you're, like, driving, I'm driving, you know, I'm doing a lot of driving back and forth to North Carolina. So that's like 9 hours in the car.

Driving is a pretty easy task for me. It's a pretty automatic task. I don't have to think about it a lot. Okay. So I can actually do other things, like listen to a book on, I want to say on tape, but we don't even use tape anymore. Listen to a book on audible or streaming. And so I can do those two things at the same time because one of them is really well learned and practiced.

The other one doesn't require a lot of action on my part. It's a more passive thing. Listening to a story is a more passive thing. So I can do those two things then. But if I tried to do math problems on top of that, then I probably would run into trouble very quickly. And when we think about focus for our dogs, it's the same thing. They can't focus on more than one thing at a time and do it well.

And as soon as we start trying to work with split focus, we tend to run into trouble. So I'm thinking of focus of more as shifting or switching it and being able to do that quickly and comfortably than trying to do more than one thing at a time. That will get us into trouble when we do that. So all these things to me are the limitations on focus, and that as a trainer, we really need to think about what's reasonable in terms of our expectations for focus from our dogs.

And dogs are all come in, they come with different levels of comfort, with focus, levels of ability to focus. I don't know quite how I want to put that, but some dogs find it much easier than others. And I've probably had two dogs in my life. Of many dogs who found focus to be very three who found focus to be very, very natural, others, it's, you know, it's a struggle sometimes to get it and then to maintain it.

And so that's what I really want to work on, is how do we build it? And once we do build it, how do we keep it, and how do we teach our dogs how to do it and how to move from focusing on one thing to another. So I'll get into more of the details on that sort of when we go along. But this idea of focus shifts is really the main thing that I think is different now than how I thought of it before.

Melissa Breau: Okay, so can you talk me through, through the different types of focus in your current approach? If we're shifting, I'm assuming we're shifting to and from something.

Deb Jones: Yes. Yes, definitely. And that's probably one of the biggest changes in my thinking, was expanding this idea of what a dog focuses on. So I came up with, after thinking about it, four main types of things that my dog could have as focal points.

So they can have an external focus, which is fairly easy, focusing on things in the environment, on objects or events happening, or even sense in the environment, anything they can perceive. We often call those things distractions, and we don't like that. But in reality, there are many times when we do want external focus. Like, I want my dog to focus on an agility obstacle that's going to be an external focus, so I'm going to need it.

I can't just try not to have it all the time. The other, the second type I thought about, and this is one I've been thinking about for a very long time, is self focus. And it's. I mainly first thought about it as internal focusing, the dog focusing on how they feel on an internal state. And so typically that internal state is going to be anxiety, stress, frustration, something along those lines.

So not always a very pleasant feeling. Also, there you have what that makes you do. So the internal state drives a behavior or an external state. So if my dog is afraid, they're going to move away, so that's still self focused. The main thing they're paying attention to is how they feel and how they can make themselves feel better. And that's always going on there under the surface, which is why we want dogs to be kind of calm and relaxed and happy when we're working with them, so that doesn't interfere.

The third kind of focus I talk about and think about and everybody thinks about is trainer focus. That's what we want. We want them to focus on us. We want them to pay attention to us and what we're doing and what we're teaching and what we're trying to convey to them in the way of information. And that was like, in the simplistic view of focus that we started with, it was focus on the trainer or be distracted.

There was nothing else. But I think there's actually a lot else happening, and we don't even always want focus on the trainer. It sounds good, but too much focus on us can get into trouble, especially when we get into performance. If I'm doing agility and I send my dog to the weave polls, the absolute last thing I want my dog to do once I say my cue to weave is to have them then focus back on me, because that's going to mean that they're not going to be able to complete the task properly at that point, I've pulled them away from the focus that they need in that situation, and we do that a lot with unintentionally.

We often call attention to ourselves when we really shouldn't, when we should let the dog do their job or the thing that we've taught them to do. Which brings me to the last type of focus, which is task focus, being able to complete a skill or a set of skills or behaviors with minimal trainer input. And this is either one. This is usually once it's already been trained.

So again, with weave polls, if I get too involved in my dog's weaving behavior, I get in the way I need to teach the task, get out of the way, let them do the thing that they've learned how to do. So to me, that's kind of the highest level of focus is task focus because it's semi independent. It usually depends on me giving the cue and having taught it and then me stepping back and letting my dog do the thing without interference.

And that's really hard sometimes. We really want to micromanage our dogs a lot when we get into higher levels of task focus. So those are the four external self trainer tasks, and those are. I started working from that model.

Melissa Breau: So you've kind of layered those with what you're calling interaction categories. Can you talk me through what you mean by an interaction category?

Deb Jones: I can indeed. When I started thinking about how do we get focus on the things we want as opposed to just things that randomly happen, I realize that there are a number of ways I can interact with my dog, and I do interact with my dogs in order to get them to pay attention to the things I want them to at any given time.

And that changes a lot depending on what I'm trying to train, what level of training my dog is at. So of course, then I came up with these. Well, I came up with these five categories. First is food. We all love training with food, almost all of us. It's powerful. It's usually easy to use, except you do have those dogs where food is problematic for some reason or the other, that they're not food motivated or there are a number of possibilities of why food doesn't work well.

But I love using food. But sometimes that's all people use as a way to interact with their dogs. It's like that's the tool they use to keep their dogs connected to them, and we use it. But if we only use that exclusively, we're really limiting ourselves. So I want to think about how else can I interact with my dog to build focus and to be able to move it around to different focal points.

So the other way is toys, and toys are to me, a tool to really encourage interaction between the person and the dog without food. Another way to do it. As we all know, some dogs are really easy to play with. With toys. They just naturally fall into different games with you. Others are very difficult. Oftentimes they're just, especially after puppyhood, they just are like, what are you doing?

Why would I do this thing? Some dogs are natural zip playing tug. Others say, well, if you want it, I'll let go. Here, you can have it. The same with, like, playing fetch. Some dogs are, seem to pick it up really fast, and others are like, that doesn't make any sense to bring it back to you. Why would I want to do that? That's the last thing I want.

But we can still use a lot of different toys in a lot of different ways in order to build some interaction. And toys are also going to be very useful to build, focus on something external to us, focus on the toy and get them away from us, which I'll talk more about why that matters as we go on. Movement was my third category, both moving with the dog, my dog moving with me.

So, of course, we start to think of something like healing very, very quickly of my dog moving with me. So basic stages of that. The idea that my dog cares if I'm moving around and is paying attention to that movement and responds to it, and many dogs do, but also moving by themselves, moving away from me, putting some distance between us, getting into my dog, still being able to focus back on me as a trainer, even though they've moved away and we have distance.

And so that's going to become important in our training. The next category I had was control. I love my control work, but learning my dog, learning that controlling themselves actually gives them the best outcome, that you don't always have to jump in and do something, you can actually wait for further instruction. And so there's a fine line here, because sometimes we do want them to jump in and do something, sometimes we do want them to wait.

So clarity on that of what we want in terms of control is going to be really important. My fifth category, tactile or touch? Both kind of a passive touch, where the dog allows me to touch them and is comfortable with that. So for that, kind of a calmer, quieter interaction, and then more active where the dog is coming back and we're kind of doing kind of a physical play of some sort together, and the dog is more active in the process.

And then I also think about touch in terms of my dog touching objects, them moving away from me again to touch something, usually with their paw or their nose. But you can get into all kinds of fancy tricks with touching different body parts to different things. So there's a lot of that going on. So there's five categories that I, that I think of. Food, toys, I have to remember them, movement, control, and tactile.

And that's. So that's a lot of interactions that we have with our dogs, and these all overlap. Typically, we may introduce them individually, but very quickly they start to combine, and that's a big part of what will be going on in classes. Class, when we get to it, is combining those things.

Melissa Breau: Okay. So I kind of understand the interaction category piece and I kind of understand the different types of focus. But can you talk a little more about how the two interact, why the one matters when we're talking about the other?

Deb Jones: Definitely, yes, definitely. I think. Well, first thing, let me say is our power as trainers, especially as positive reinforcement trainers, comes from developing strong and positive relationships with our dogs. So to me, the main power I have is to have a good relationship with my dog and my dog is interested in what I'm doing and they want to do whatever it is.

They want to be involved in my activities. Without that, I have a much harder road. So I can take these different categories and use them to build that. And at the same time I'm doing that, I'm also building different kinds of focus. It sort of comes along as for the ride comes along as a side effect. The more that I sort of integrate myself into my dog's activities, like play and movement, the more I am able to direct their focus to certain places or to other places.

So let me give you an example to talk about how this all works in my mind, but it does work. So let's say you want, you can play fetch with your dog, that you want to play fetch with a ball. It's common, lots of dogs like to do it. So that falls under, in terms of interactions, the toy category. So we're going to play fetch with a toy.

We're using a toy to encourage more interaction between myself and my dog. But I'm actually also encouraging all four different types of focus within a fetch game. So it's more than just a game. It's actually teaching my dog a lot of things. The first thing is external focus. Okay. My dog focuses on the ball. Now, that may be easy for most dogs or that may be difficult for some dogs if they're not at all interested.

So that's often the first step. And we actually, when we play with puppies and dogs, we work on getting them interested in the thing that we're interested in at the time, getting them interested in the toy. So that's often a first step, but let's say we've managed that. So my dog is interested in an external object. That's good. That's a good place to start. So I have external focus.

They're going to have to think about what they're doing with the object. So I throw the ball, my dog runs to it and grabs it. So that's more self focus going on there. They're actively doing something with the object, and they're moving away from me, which actually is a good thing. I want to teach them very early that distance with movement is important. So moving away from me doesn't, the more distance we have doesn't mean we're not still doing something together.

Okay. And sometimes dogs think that they have a certain distance, and once you're out of that range, you no longer really exist for them anymore. So I want to teach them that. Then if we're playing fetch, I want them to turn around, and I want them to pick up the ball, turn around, and bring it back to me, which is a whole, is a task. It's a job.

And we have to teach many dogs that. Some pick it up again naturally, which is always really nice, but sometimes you have to really encourage that return and work at getting them to come back and to give you back the ball. So that's task focus there. So we'd work on that little piece of it. And the whole thing is trainer focus. Because I'm in the middle of the game, I'm involved in initiating the game.

I'm involved in taking the ball and throwing it again. And as soon as, the sooner I can teach my dog that bringing it back means you get it again, the better. So there's all those different types of focus there. And if we have a breakdown in fetch, if fetch isn't working for some reason, if we analyze it through this lens, we can typically figure out what we need to do to fix it.

So let's say somebody has one of those dogs that they're interested in the ball, so they've got good external focus. You throw the ball, they chase it, they grab it. So they've got pretty good self focus about this, and then they possess the ball and nothing else matters in the world. So now they're stuck. They're stuck in self focus, and it's very self reinforcing for certain dogs to keep the toy and possess it.

So now we don't have any trainer focus, and we don't have any task focus at all. So they've stopped at that point where self focus became so reinforcing that nothing else mattered anymore. So that gives us a way to analyze, I think this focus model gives us a way to analyze that that makes sense and then go, okay, well, what do I need to do now? How do I need to change this?

What do I need to change? Well, maybe that particular toy is too high value and a less high value toy might work. So taking down the value of the possession a little bit, maybe that distance is too much for my dog, and so keeping them in my range as a trainer and getting more trainer focus and keeping that going, maybe that'll help. Playing something like shades, two toys game where you get one, the other one, the other really fast without distance.

That should build up the idea of the task. Bring it back, drop it, get another one. Bring it back, drop it, get another one. So when we start to think about it like that, I think it's easier to address issues that might come up. And we've done all that by something that most of us think is just a game, but it's really tapping into a lot of important aspects of training and a focus work just by doing something like that. If we think about it that way. I don't know if I even answered the question.

Melissa Breau: No, you absolutely did. So just kind of thinking through that. I haven't heard the word arousal yet, and I feel like that's always a thing that kind of comes into the conversation, right, whenever we're talking about something like this or when things kind of go off the rails, maybe. So can you talk a little bit about how arousal states maybe factor into all this, what role they role arousal plays?

Deb Jones: Oh, definitely. I think it's huge in focus work, and as you know, I've done a lot of work in Zen or impulse control type work as well. And this is one of the reasons, because over arousal inhibits learning. But you can see it here. So first of all, I always think of that goldilocks level of arousal. We want just right. We want a little bit because otherwise they'd be sleeping on the sofa and we wouldn't have any interest in what we're doing.

And I've actually had dogs where that's where they start a lot of times. And so we want more than that, but we don't want so much that they are totally and completely self focused on how they feel, because from that, you know, say they're over aroused, they're frantic, they're frustrated, they're excited. Whatever the case is, it's too much. And so that's all they can focus on. And their behavior will show that their behavior will reflect what's going on inside.

So the frantic dog might be moving really quickly, and people might think, oh, that dog's really motivated, but in reality, they're just over aroused and they're not thinking clearly, they're not able to perform tasks, and we probably have minimal trainer focus when they're in that sort of a state. So I don't want them to get to that high or low where they can't think and they can't perform tasks.

So I tend to think of overarousal now as being just too much self focused, that they're unable to get out of themselves to pay attention to me and to pay attention to what it is that we're working on doing together. And when that's the case, the only solution for that, to bring them back into a better mental emotional state. And that's where the control aspects, the control work comes in and why I put it in with focus, because I think it can really help with a dog that gets both too high or too low.

I've worked it with both sides and found when the dog gets too high, it can bring them down just enough to allow them to think. When the dog is too low, it actually can bring them up and build some confidence and success so that they can then go ahead and perform other tasks. So it can work for both ends of the scale there. But if we're trying to train through arousal or we're using over arousal as a way to get energy and to get our dogs moving, I think we're heading down the wrong path there because we're just going to keep, we're actually going to push them further and further away from being able to focus on us and being able to focus on the things that we would like them to do.

Melissa Breau: So what does training all of this kind of look like in practice? Can you talk me through how we maybe train for one type of focus or another, and then maybe how we apply that in our bigger training?

Deb Jones: Yeah, I can. Yeah. It's kind of amazing. When I, when I sat down and really thought about what is it that we do that really, you know, what are the things that are most valuable for building focus?

And I found that so many things that seem simple and small, but if we do them properly, so I'm big on mechanics of things because improperly doesn't just waste your time and doesn't really get you anywhere, but if we do them properly, they really, really help. So something simple. For example, treat, what we call treat toss recalls. We've been doing these for years and years. We start with puppies.

We work it at all ages. We do them when they're old. Doesn't matter. So this introduces again all the different kinds of focus, but it's at a little micro level, kind of. It's the starting steps that will lead to bigger things. So we start out, you know, with the cookie toss. So we teach dogs. You would think you don't need to teach a dog to chase a cookie and eat it, but sometimes you need to teach them to track the cookie and pay attention to it and focus on it and go get it.

So external focus on the cookie, self focus by I go get it when you throw it and give me the cue. So that's the beginnings to me of everything that's going to be distance work for my dog later on down the line. So if I think about something like in utility go outs, cookie tosses to me are the beginning steps of go outs. They're giving them that little bit of understanding that moving away from me pays off.

But then getting them away from me is very valuable because then I can call them back. And to me, that's the other big thing. Now I have to get you away from me somehow. Once I do that, I can use a recall cue. I can call you back. So I'm going now back to trainer focus, and I'm teaching a task. Once you eat the cookie, I call you, you turn around, and you come back to me.

So I have those two things going on there again. So what I'm actually trying to get at with dogs with this is when you're away from me and you're done with whatever you've done out there, your task out there, which for the eat a cookie, which is a pretty darn easy task, reorient to me, pay attention to me again. Turn back into trainer focus from a distance. And we get that very quickly.

Even without a recall cue anymore. We will do recalls, like back and forth with our dogs, you know, especially our puppies. And you always see at some point they eat one cookie and they turn around and go back without the cue. They don't need the cue anymore. So that automatic reaction that we're building in there is really important. I want it to eventually be, okay, I'm away from you.

Stop, turn. What do you want me to do now? And I can give a cue. So on a go out, I can tell my dog to sit. And so now I've got, again in the beginning steps of something like that. Or I can send them out to go around a cone, but they've learned go out distance, do something out there. I'll tell you what it is. So you go from external focus, easily back into trainer focus, and they offer it.

I don't have to always ask for it. If my dog goes out and they're in external focus and now they're just looking around or sniffing something. That was a breakdown because I really want to strongly reinforce that. Now it's time for you to decide to turn back to train of focus. I don't always have to want to ask for it, and I don't want to. I don't want to avoid external focus either.

I think that's important for them to be able to have to go out in the world to pay attention to things, but then to be able to come back to me. We do the same thing when hiking with dogs. I do that all the time. When we're in a safe place and they're hiking off leash, you can go have all the external focus in the world you want.

But if I call you, I want you to immediately reorient to me. I will reinforce that highly. And what I tend to get after I do a little bit of that is they come back, they check in, and I reinforce the heck out of that, because then it becomes just, oh, I don't want to go too far, and I better check in and see what's going on back there.

So that all builds from something that simple. And as I say, it doesn't take a lot of repetition for them to figure out that reorienting it to the trainer is almost always going to be the correct thing to do. You can't really lose with that. So something like that, tossing a cookie, calling my dog back, it just lays the foundation for so many other things on down the line that I might want to do.

I like to train for every possibility and then I can figure out what I want later. So in that first year, I'm doing a lot of these focus exercises, but I can then make them into whatever spot sport or skill that I need on down the line. And so to me, that's what's really valuable, is I've got such a good foundation by doing these what seem to be simple exercises that when I go to the harder stuff, they go, oh, this is just like what we've been doing, except, you know, just little slight difference here or there. So they get it. Splitting it down. You're talking about splitting. What a concept that.

Melissa Breau: All right, so you're doing a deep dive cut on all of this in your new class for August, fully focused. Can you share a little more about the class, maybe who might want to consider joining you? Yes, I definitely can. And I wanted to remind that I do have a webinar coming up on it soon, too.

Deb Jones: Yeah, yeah. July 8 is the webinar so I think if, yeah, by the time this comes out, it'll be the following week. So, yeah, the time is correct. Okay, so I'm going to have the webinar. So I'll talk about the webinar first, and then I'll talk about the class. So if, if you're interested in these concepts at all, I think the webinar is a good thing to look at because I go back into some background about how to look at this.

I go back a little bit into my social psychology background and talk about where this whole idea of environmental focus, for example, external focus came from and how I learned more about it. So there's a lot of theory in the webinar, but it still also has, for each type of focus and for each of the categories, I have a couple different exercises that I show as well to give people kind of a really good look at it.

So if you're, if you want to get the big picture, the webinar would be really good. And if you're not sure if the class might be for you or not, the webinar would be a good way to know that. And I'd say if you plan on taking the class, still do the webinar because you'll be ahead of the game. You'll have the big view of everything before you go into the details.

So big view in the webinar for the class. Who needs it? I always think, well, do you need more focus from your dog? If you do, you could probably use the class. Do you want more focus in day to day life or do you need it only in specific situations? And so sometimes it's like, no, I've got fine focus in all these places, but not here. So we can take a look at that and talk about that.

And I think as we go through the class, people will be able to solve their own focus issues. They'll be able to use the exercises and the information and apply them to the places where they're having problems right now. So I think it's very applicable pretty quickly. Let's see. Oh, yeah. So we've taught two focused classes at FDSA. I taught get focused and focus games. So two six weeks classes for probably almost twelve years now.

We've taught those two classes basically the same, basically the same way. We'd update exercises here or there. But I always felt like I wanted to make a bigger, I wanted to make a bigger change. And so that really required starting from scratch and starting over. I couldn't keep just adding things or taking things away because it didn't feel right to me. I like it to all fit together and make sense.

And so I decided that I was going to do this total overhaul and focus work. So we're no longer teaching those two classes. Again, everything about focus that I think is really important is going to be in this class. So I think it's sort of the best of both of those classes, but also with improvements on the exercises that we add in the new class. So I really wanted to think through, okay, what does this exercise add to focus?

Where are we strengthening it or how are we building it? And so bringing that out for every exercise that we choose and use was important to me to do. So, like I said, it just turns out to be so much easier to start from scratch. And especially thinking about the idea of focus shifting from one thing to the other, from one type to the other, and how can we help our dogs do that more easily.

So I really thought a lot about how I got, how I get focused with my own dogs, because I do, but I never really knew exactly which part of what I was doing was working best. I mean, I knew I do a lot of things, and so which of these things are the most important and were definitely lead to focus. So I tried to add those things in so that basically you'd have this focus foundation when you're done, where the things that you're teaching don't really look like.

If you take them individually, you might not see what they're doing for you. But once you put them all together and you go through them with your dog, then you've got this really solid foundation to build other things on. And for me, it's always been a matter of if you don't have focus, you really don't have anything because it's all going to fall apart. But it's not even that now.

It's more if your dog isn't comfortable with different types of focus, it's going to fall apart when you're trying to do other sports or activities with your dog. So I think that what I've put together now, very different. Yet some of the things will be familiar to people if they've taken the other focus classes before, some things will be familiar. But still, I think there's a lot of value in the way that we're presenting them and working with them now we're adding a lot to it.

So I'm pretty proud of it and I'm pretty. I'm getting to the point of overwhelm as it gets closer to class, starting and making all new videos and. And working through all new exercises and. Yeah, it's a process. People don't realize how much goes into a class sometimes. And I forgot because it's been a little while since I've done a new class. Like, oh, that's a lot of work. So I hope again, I think I answered the question.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, absolutely. Close enough. Any maybe final thoughts you want to leave folks with or key points you kind of want to hit on one more time before we wrap up?

Deb Jones: Sure. Yes. I actually have two things that I've been thinking about along here. The first one is that dog training is always changing, and that's a good thing. If I was still training the way focused the way I was 25 years ago, that would not be good.

That would be, you know, that's stagnant. And I don't want that. We're always learning more. We're always open to new ideas. If you're a good trainer, I think you're always open to new ideas and always willing to say, okay, that's the way I did it before, but now I'm doing it this way and this way seems better. This way is either a better outcome or it's more ethical or it's easier.

There's just. There's something about it. The dogs like it more. Whatever it is, this way is better. So I think that's something to always keep in mind. And I'm trying very hard to remember as I go from some very long held beliefs and thoughts about focus that I really. I need to change them, I need to update them, and I can't keep them the same forever, that we really do need to change over time.

And I think most people realize that, but it's easy to say it. It's hard to put it into practice because we are creatures of habit and we do things the same way over and over again for years. It's hard to change that. And so that's one thing. And the second thing I want to say is, it's not the dog's fault if he's not focused on what you want.

So that focus is a skill. We have to teach it. We're trainers. That's our job. That's our part of it, is to teach them. They don't come pre focused. If they did, people would buy all those puppies right away. It's like, I want the focused one as opposed to the one who thinks squirrels are fabulous. But that's actually focus. It's just on something we don't want at the moment.

So I think we have to. We can't expect focus if we haven't trained focus. And you won't get it. It'll, like I say, everything will seem to be going along really well until you get into a trial or at an event, and then things start to fall apart. So just know that you really do need to do the focus work. You need to put in the work. It's a separate skill from other things.

And we can work with it, but it's a little tricky because is oftentimes sort of invisible or opaque is maybe a better term for it. But that's something that we need to work on as trainers, that we need to take responsibility for focus. It's not the dog's responsibility, it's ours. I think that's kind of a good thought. Just because it's helpful maybe to know sometimes if you don't have it, it's a skill you can build, like something that hasn't come along as you were doing your other training.

It's something you can actually go back in rehab. Yeah, exactly. And it's not like my dog is focused or he's not ever, you know, there's always room for positive change. And so I think that is a good thing. The hard part is now do the work. Now we have to do the hard part and actually do it. But we can. That's the beauty of this kind of training. You can make a big difference.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Deb. Oh, thank you. I always enjoy it. Me too. Thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Julie Simons to talk about how to train for one of a kind hides. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by Bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.

 Credits

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!